allå Maria,
This is part 2. Wow I have written so much. Too much. Hope you can read it all.
Too often Israel is held up to standards that no other country is held to: double standards. It is wrong to ask of Israel behaviour not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation. There are more than a few in what you write.
Here we have one example. So what if foreign workers replaced the West Bank and Gaza Palestinian workers. Yes there are foreign workers in Israel. All wealthy countries have foreign workers. First the West Bank and Gaza Palestinians worked here and now, because of the terrorism, of a small minority, it is not possible for them to work in Israel any more. Now the foreign workers come from Romania, China, Thailand and elsewhere. You can see the same all over Europe and in all wealthy countries. Why pick on Israel about this? Go and ask the Saudis why they have Asians workers and the British why they have Polish!
I did write that the hate is mutual:
"You are right the root of the problem is hate: yes Israelis hate Arabs. The years of fear of wars and terror have caused this to happen. It is very sad. Israeli children have been brought up for decades fearing Arabs and hating them. Maybe Arab children are brought up the same way".
I really cannot add to that.
You are right, I said that it is difficult to understand the Palestinians. I think most Israelis (across the political spectrum) also do not understand the Palestinians. The 2nd Intifada was very important, we just do not get it. Here was peace, here was the beginning of Palestine and then we got violence. There are many cases of left-wing, liberal Israelis who supported peace who just gave up in 2000!
What you say about me, and my ideas on feminism, is very interesting. I think that you are clever to tie the two together. Of course Israeli Palestinians study Zionist history and Hebrew. In all countries the minorities have to study and accept the cultural norms of the majority. In my history books in the UK when I was in school the knights and the crusaders were good and honourable and Christian. In reality they were a murderous rabble and Jews were massacred by them all across Europe and in Israel. The Jews were on the side of the "infidel" Arabs!
"Bedouin children and typical houses in Tel Sheva"
Have you read what is happening in the Palestinian areas now? If that is what the leaders and the militias do to their own people, what will they do to us one day? Call it paranoia if you like, just read what the Hamas are doing to the PLO and vice versa. These are the same Palestinians who kill their own daughters and sisters for immodesty. Are you a feminist? Someone has to do something to stop Arab men killing their own daughters and sisters. I do not care if you call me racist. In situations like this we put niceties aside, we need to speak clearly. Israeli liberals (people like me) have made crazy statements like "if only we would give them the occupied territories, there will be peace". You tell me if this is correct! Israel has signed dozens of peace treaties, invited Arab leaders again and again to talks, it is even in our Declaration of Independence. The peace treaties do not work. We are still ostracised, and there is no peace. My conclusion is that there will never be peace until the Arabs see the last Jew leaving the Middle East. I am against peace treaties, they do not work, we need to get ourselves to trust each other, what the Americans call "confidence building measures".
What do you mean about the Druse in the Golan paying taxes for rainwater they collect? Never heard of this.
Rabbis do not decide about death in Israel. The secular parliament decided that marriage and divorce (personal law) of Jews would be in the hands of the Rabbinical Courts. Only the actual divorce is rabbinical, the secular Family Courts decide everything else: child custody, alimony etc. The JNF owns most land in Israel. The JNF is not allowed to discriminate against non-Jews. An Arab cannot be denied residency anywhere in Israel, even in closed Jewish settlements set up by the JNF. To compare us to Iran is hilarious. Even the draft (and relatively liberal) Palestinian constitution says that Palestine shall be a Muslim country ruled by Sharia.
Israeli Jewish boy planting trees in Israel on Arbour Day (Tubeshevat)
Israel is a Jewish State so of course the interests of Jews – the majority – come first. The interests of the minorities are respected and upheld by law. This is the double standard again. It is that same in France and Greece and everywhere, you care for your own nationals. In Israel it is a little more complicated I admit; Israel is the Jewish State but Israeli Arabs have full rights. Hebrew and Judaism and Zionism are first, other culture second. It is the same with Welsh culture in the UK, Latino culture in USA etc.
I do not understand what happened to you when you came to Palestine/Israel. Did you come with preconceived notions? After all you came to work in the West Bank. Did you have a bad attitude at the border: Palestinian flags or something like that? There are thousands upon thousands of tourists who come to Israel every year of all colours and religions and they can tell you a different story. Why do black Jewish Ethiopians fit into Israeli society and why did your (blond?) Swedish friends not get picked on? I do not know. Yes there is racial screening at Israeli security checks and this is because 99% of all terrorists are Arab/Palestinian/Muslim. This is a sad racial fact, and utilizing it just might save someone's life.
Forget the "European Jews on the top", it is old fashioned, dead and buried. There may be rivalry between different ethnic groups of Jews in Israel. So what! Again it is something that happens all across the world (double standards). Ask blacks in Sweden, Bedouin in Kuwait, Africans in Sudan the list goes one. Does it help you that one of my bosses is not a European Jew and the head of my department is also not. My wife is also not! The only ones who go on about the "European Jews on the top" are cheap Israeli politicians out to make a noise in hope of gaining popularity, and that stupid trick usually does not work. (Although I must admit that Israel's leading geographer, OrenYitachel, I mentioned him to you, has written a lot about this, and has pointed out how society here works in favour of European Jews.)
Thank you very much for the compliment: "Saul you write very polite and in an open way. I wonder if you might be a teacher?" and even more thank you that you think my son is adorable!!! My wife will not let me photograph her and she is so beautiful. She is very annoying; she keeps trying to get out of it. She is not really black, actually no one is black or white or yellow, some of us are dark brown or pinkish white and most are something in between.
I am a lawyer. For 4 years I work for a trade union representing workers. Then I left and worked for the police (as a prosecutor) for a year but hated it. After a year in the police I became self-employed and did some labour law, I represented all sorts including lots of foreign workers. But mostly, for 7 years, I did criminal law. I received lots of work from the Public Defender's Office. I dealt withall sorts of nasty cases: my clients were of lots of different nationalities and background, people really on the outside of society. Last year I closed my office and joined a firm of patent agents. I did the degree in management for fun, at the time I wantedto be a civil servant, but I never found a job I wanted. Maybe the next move for me will be to work for a charity or human rights organization - when I have paid the mortgage! I am 40, how old are you? Why do you want to move to Buenos Aires?
s a u l
This is part 2. Wow I have written so much. Too much. Hope you can read it all.
Too often Israel is held up to standards that no other country is held to: double standards. It is wrong to ask of Israel behaviour not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation. There are more than a few in what you write.
Here we have one example. So what if foreign workers replaced the West Bank and Gaza Palestinian workers. Yes there are foreign workers in Israel. All wealthy countries have foreign workers. First the West Bank and Gaza Palestinians worked here and now, because of the terrorism, of a small minority, it is not possible for them to work in Israel any more. Now the foreign workers come from Romania, China, Thailand and elsewhere. You can see the same all over Europe and in all wealthy countries. Why pick on Israel about this? Go and ask the Saudis why they have Asians workers and the British why they have Polish!
I did write that the hate is mutual:
"You are right the root of the problem is hate: yes Israelis hate Arabs. The years of fear of wars and terror have caused this to happen. It is very sad. Israeli children have been brought up for decades fearing Arabs and hating them. Maybe Arab children are brought up the same way".
I really cannot add to that.
You are right, I said that it is difficult to understand the Palestinians. I think most Israelis (across the political spectrum) also do not understand the Palestinians. The 2nd Intifada was very important, we just do not get it. Here was peace, here was the beginning of Palestine and then we got violence. There are many cases of left-wing, liberal Israelis who supported peace who just gave up in 2000!
What you say about me, and my ideas on feminism, is very interesting. I think that you are clever to tie the two together. Of course Israeli Palestinians study Zionist history and Hebrew. In all countries the minorities have to study and accept the cultural norms of the majority. In my history books in the UK when I was in school the knights and the crusaders were good and honourable and Christian. In reality they were a murderous rabble and Jews were massacred by them all across Europe and in Israel. The Jews were on the side of the "infidel" Arabs!
"Bedouin children and typical houses in Tel Sheva"
Have you read what is happening in the Palestinian areas now? If that is what the leaders and the militias do to their own people, what will they do to us one day? Call it paranoia if you like, just read what the Hamas are doing to the PLO and vice versa. These are the same Palestinians who kill their own daughters and sisters for immodesty. Are you a feminist? Someone has to do something to stop Arab men killing their own daughters and sisters. I do not care if you call me racist. In situations like this we put niceties aside, we need to speak clearly. Israeli liberals (people like me) have made crazy statements like "if only we would give them the occupied territories, there will be peace". You tell me if this is correct! Israel has signed dozens of peace treaties, invited Arab leaders again and again to talks, it is even in our Declaration of Independence. The peace treaties do not work. We are still ostracised, and there is no peace. My conclusion is that there will never be peace until the Arabs see the last Jew leaving the Middle East. I am against peace treaties, they do not work, we need to get ourselves to trust each other, what the Americans call "confidence building measures".
What do you mean about the Druse in the Golan paying taxes for rainwater they collect? Never heard of this.
Rabbis do not decide about death in Israel. The secular parliament decided that marriage and divorce (personal law) of Jews would be in the hands of the Rabbinical Courts. Only the actual divorce is rabbinical, the secular Family Courts decide everything else: child custody, alimony etc. The JNF owns most land in Israel. The JNF is not allowed to discriminate against non-Jews. An Arab cannot be denied residency anywhere in Israel, even in closed Jewish settlements set up by the JNF. To compare us to Iran is hilarious. Even the draft (and relatively liberal) Palestinian constitution says that Palestine shall be a Muslim country ruled by Sharia.
Israeli Jewish boy planting trees in Israel on Arbour Day (Tubeshevat)
Israel is a Jewish State so of course the interests of Jews – the majority – come first. The interests of the minorities are respected and upheld by law. This is the double standard again. It is that same in France and Greece and everywhere, you care for your own nationals. In Israel it is a little more complicated I admit; Israel is the Jewish State but Israeli Arabs have full rights. Hebrew and Judaism and Zionism are first, other culture second. It is the same with Welsh culture in the UK, Latino culture in USA etc.
I do not understand what happened to you when you came to Palestine/Israel. Did you come with preconceived notions? After all you came to work in the West Bank. Did you have a bad attitude at the border: Palestinian flags or something like that? There are thousands upon thousands of tourists who come to Israel every year of all colours and religions and they can tell you a different story. Why do black Jewish Ethiopians fit into Israeli society and why did your (blond?) Swedish friends not get picked on? I do not know. Yes there is racial screening at Israeli security checks and this is because 99% of all terrorists are Arab/Palestinian/Muslim. This is a sad racial fact, and utilizing it just might save someone's life.
Forget the "European Jews on the top", it is old fashioned, dead and buried. There may be rivalry between different ethnic groups of Jews in Israel. So what! Again it is something that happens all across the world (double standards). Ask blacks in Sweden, Bedouin in Kuwait, Africans in Sudan the list goes one. Does it help you that one of my bosses is not a European Jew and the head of my department is also not. My wife is also not! The only ones who go on about the "European Jews on the top" are cheap Israeli politicians out to make a noise in hope of gaining popularity, and that stupid trick usually does not work. (Although I must admit that Israel's leading geographer, OrenYitachel, I mentioned him to you, has written a lot about this, and has pointed out how society here works in favour of European Jews.)
Thank you very much for the compliment: "Saul you write very polite and in an open way. I wonder if you might be a teacher?" and even more thank you that you think my son is adorable!!! My wife will not let me photograph her and she is so beautiful. She is very annoying; she keeps trying to get out of it. She is not really black, actually no one is black or white or yellow, some of us are dark brown or pinkish white and most are something in between.
I am a lawyer. For 4 years I work for a trade union representing workers. Then I left and worked for the police (as a prosecutor) for a year but hated it. After a year in the police I became self-employed and did some labour law, I represented all sorts including lots of foreign workers. But mostly, for 7 years, I did criminal law. I received lots of work from the Public Defender's Office. I dealt withall sorts of nasty cases: my clients were of lots of different nationalities and background, people really on the outside of society. Last year I closed my office and joined a firm of patent agents. I did the degree in management for fun, at the time I wantedto be a civil servant, but I never found a job I wanted. Maybe the next move for me will be to work for a charity or human rights organization - when I have paid the mortgage! I am 40, how old are you? Why do you want to move to Buenos Aires?
s a u l
No comments:
Post a Comment