SELAM SAUL,
And so finally I got some time from moving out & in and getting used to be two. Still don´t know what happend to half of the summer thoug?
:)
And now to your loooooooong rich text and our summer dicussion. I have seperated them in diffrent responses. This the first adressing the DOUBLE MORAL and "THE PEACE BEFORE INTIFADA".
Saul, I just cant for the world understand this national pity anthem Israel has. any critism is either hate/double moral/bias/anti (choose any at any time) and in some cases claimed to be "anti semitist" propaganda against a obviouse struggling, alone, small, virtuness "David" Israel. Sorry, that´s not how it works. Israel is nation with 200 nuclear missiles and the best conventional army, the highest industrial and technological capacity in the region and is not a poor little David, rather Goliat!
(David & Goliat - in carpets. Taken 2006 in Palestine)
Regarding the "democracy" it´s as week it can get and still get away with that lable. I wrote a paper on this and it´s amazingly intresting how smart the other system behind the"democracy" face works. the apartheid. but more about that later...
One must be able to critize, demand answers and responsiblity from Israel without
at the same time including other countries. How otherwise can I ever talk to you about issues in Israel without having to including let´s say a person from Marocko and Us? It´s if the critierias varies (as usaually when Usa get´s into the play) from countries to countries that double moral is a claim. Israel fearfully fights any report by any organisation or personand applies of above claims. It´s like Israel can not be critised rightfully nor is responsible at all at anything which it creates and does. A sort of circle discussion. This is cleverly done and practised all the time and by getting away with it Israel is itself practising double moral. For surley no other country can do what Israel is doing and have been doing since 1948: stealing land & water, distroying palestinan fabric, emposing apartheid, building a wall and bantus and always blaming the victim aso..
.............................................
An example:
Israel rejects Amnesty report urging end to West Bank fence
"Israel's Justice Ministry, however, said the 45-page report made only passing reference to Israel's right to self-defense and paid insufficient attention to the threat to Israeli human rights posed by the militants.
"The lack of emphasis on the centrality of Palestinian terror and the obligation of the Israel Defense Forces to protect Israeli citizens as a result is unreasonable and creates a deliberately misleading impression," a ministry statement said." (http://www.haaretz.com)
.............................................
Regarding the "double moral" of foreign workers in Israel. Ofcourse it´s possible to have palestina workers in Israel. They built your country more or less and by the week position they have in Israel in regard of human rights and workers rights have always been a great target for scaming, abusing and other power games played by employees. It´s because Israel wants to "reduce mutual dependence" (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world) that " it is too dangerous" to allow Palestinians to enter the country". And instead
Israel´s plan is as stated below:
.............................................
"The use of foreign workers in Israel reveals a clear and open policy of substituting Palestinian workers with a workforce from overseas - Asia, Eastern Europe and Africa
...Israel, like many Western nations, has a need for additional cheap labour. Foreign workers have been brought in to replace Palestinian workers. However, the Government is anxious not to have a settled workforce, partly because it is regarded as a temporary phenomenon, and partly to preserve the Jewish nature of the state, so it has restricted foreign workers to a maximum stay of two years, with virtually no civil rights." (http://www.fidh.org/magmoyen/rapport/2003/il1806a.pdf)
"In the area of social rights and terms of employment, Palestinians working in Israel and the settlements are oppressed and discriminated against in a variety of ways. Palestinian workers are one of the weakest sectors of the Israeli labor force. They are therefore an easy target for exploitation and oppression by private employers." (http://www.fidh.org/article) .............................................
So old slaves are exchanged for new slaves. And miles and miles will be written on the relation of poverty struck out of colonialism, imperialism and it´s fundamentalistic expression but in Israel only it´s security, it´s right to exist, it´s right to water and normality exist.... Or as Peres said back then ""Employment is the best answer to violence". That is if it´s peace, coexistance and human rights that Israel wants for itselfs?
So why do I pick on Israel when Israel is doing what every other country is doing, using foreign workers!? Well nowhere is there a responsiblity (read the ”blame” circle discussion) in that Israel is strangeling the Palestinan economy by block tax refunds, exportation of olive oil and movement of people and goods in Palestine and at the same time knowly excludes Palestinian laborers. This is a policy of apartheid and must stop! Another example of double standard? But then again Israel can never be blamed for anything because the security reasons can´t never be problematised. Israel must have the right to choose the best economic strategy for itself (foreign workers) and at the same time distroyes it´s inter tweened neigbour economic. Surly there must be someone in Israel that also believes in that building common fundamental economic possibilites creates platforms and highways for peace? What do you think? Why must Israel´s right be by dening Palestine to exist? (Looking for an answer that is not ”security reasons” if possible?).
Saul, I find it amazing that so many Israelies (actually everyone that I have meet) can´t distance themself from the "David" role and glaze at the same situation with other glasses?! This sounds like asking a colonial Belgian in Kongo during their colonial hightime about a comment on the situation and then assuming that it covered everyone in Kongo (while King Leopold raped, killed tousend and stole systematically in Kongo). No seeing is neutral as You know so why should Israelis be? You say that there were peace before the 2:nd intifada? Peace for whom? Wasn´t it during this "peacetime" that the Westbank saw the beginning of the building boom that even today shows no signs in slowing down?
………….
" Leading up to the second Intifada there were long years of political exhaustion in sterile negotiations with Israel. The standard of living plunged. The legal system proved nonexistent. Arafat carried out a reign of political terror. There was one lone attempt on the secular plane at organized public protest: the Manifesto of the Twenty, published on November 27, 1999. This criticized the PA's corruption and its collaboration with Israel. It did not receive significant public support and was quickly put down."
(intresting reading about the intifadas: http://www.challenge-mag.com/74/intifadas.html)
………..
And surly there must be another perspective on the second Intifada and why It blow off? How much obviouse can it get when a massmurderer (sabra & shatila) and rasist political leader as Sharon enters the Al Aska moskee? It must be clear that he didn´t want to have a chat with peaceful muslims about a peaceful two-state solution in a peaceful climate! Sadly I hear & read so many times the more "offical story" that since the Palestines are violent the second Intifada started out of that reason. What´s your view Saul?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre).
Regarding feminism, I just had a awful lecture in rethoric where my professsor said some really sad thing. Among others he said that "I think that women only should seperate their legs at nighttime". When I told him afterwards, that I by the end of the day proberbly would have seperated my legs around 10 times (at least) and none of them were for having sex and ask him what he had to say to that fact he just mumbled. I later mailed him to get him to explain his statement - why should women only seperate their legs at nighttime? If a professor in rethoric says that, he means it - surly he must be able to argument for it?!
So far nothing...
Now I need to take a walk around the block to get a some fresh summer air & maybe I will get a latte. Actually, one of the best latte I ever had so far were the shmolt (israeli latte) you got at every ordinary gas station or coffeplace. Cant for the world say why (the milk?) but it still occupy a high mark on my list...
later...
:m
All links:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/866768.html
http://www.fidh.org/magmoyen/rapport/2003/il1806a.pdf
http://www.fidh.org/article.php3?id_article=3257
http://www.challenge-mag.com/74/intifadas.html (recommend this one!)
And so finally I got some time from moving out & in and getting used to be two. Still don´t know what happend to half of the summer thoug?
:)
And now to your loooooooong rich text and our summer dicussion. I have seperated them in diffrent responses. This the first adressing the DOUBLE MORAL and "THE PEACE BEFORE INTIFADA".
Saul, I just cant for the world understand this national pity anthem Israel has. any critism is either hate/double moral/bias/anti (choose any at any time) and in some cases claimed to be "anti semitist" propaganda against a obviouse struggling, alone, small, virtuness "David" Israel. Sorry, that´s not how it works. Israel is nation with 200 nuclear missiles and the best conventional army, the highest industrial and technological capacity in the region and is not a poor little David, rather Goliat!
(David & Goliat - in carpets. Taken 2006 in Palestine)
Regarding the "democracy" it´s as week it can get and still get away with that lable. I wrote a paper on this and it´s amazingly intresting how smart the other system behind the"democracy" face works. the apartheid. but more about that later...
One must be able to critize, demand answers and responsiblity from Israel without
at the same time including other countries. How otherwise can I ever talk to you about issues in Israel without having to including let´s say a person from Marocko and Us? It´s if the critierias varies (as usaually when Usa get´s into the play) from countries to countries that double moral is a claim. Israel fearfully fights any report by any organisation or personand applies of above claims. It´s like Israel can not be critised rightfully nor is responsible at all at anything which it creates and does. A sort of circle discussion. This is cleverly done and practised all the time and by getting away with it Israel is itself practising double moral. For surley no other country can do what Israel is doing and have been doing since 1948: stealing land & water, distroying palestinan fabric, emposing apartheid, building a wall and bantus and always blaming the victim aso..
.............................................
An example:
Israel rejects Amnesty report urging end to West Bank fence
"Israel's Justice Ministry, however, said the 45-page report made only passing reference to Israel's right to self-defense and paid insufficient attention to the threat to Israeli human rights posed by the militants.
"The lack of emphasis on the centrality of Palestinian terror and the obligation of the Israel Defense Forces to protect Israeli citizens as a result is unreasonable and creates a deliberately misleading impression," a ministry statement said." (http://www.haaretz.com)
.............................................
Regarding the "double moral" of foreign workers in Israel. Ofcourse it´s possible to have palestina workers in Israel. They built your country more or less and by the week position they have in Israel in regard of human rights and workers rights have always been a great target for scaming, abusing and other power games played by employees. It´s because Israel wants to "reduce mutual dependence" (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world) that " it is too dangerous" to allow Palestinians to enter the country". And instead
Israel´s plan is as stated below:
.............................................
"The use of foreign workers in Israel reveals a clear and open policy of substituting Palestinian workers with a workforce from overseas - Asia, Eastern Europe and Africa
...Israel, like many Western nations, has a need for additional cheap labour. Foreign workers have been brought in to replace Palestinian workers. However, the Government is anxious not to have a settled workforce, partly because it is regarded as a temporary phenomenon, and partly to preserve the Jewish nature of the state, so it has restricted foreign workers to a maximum stay of two years, with virtually no civil rights." (http://www.fidh.org/magmoyen/rapport/2003/il1806a.pdf)
"In the area of social rights and terms of employment, Palestinians working in Israel and the settlements are oppressed and discriminated against in a variety of ways. Palestinian workers are one of the weakest sectors of the Israeli labor force. They are therefore an easy target for exploitation and oppression by private employers." (http://www.fidh.org/article) .............................................
So old slaves are exchanged for new slaves. And miles and miles will be written on the relation of poverty struck out of colonialism, imperialism and it´s fundamentalistic expression but in Israel only it´s security, it´s right to exist, it´s right to water and normality exist.... Or as Peres said back then ""Employment is the best answer to violence". That is if it´s peace, coexistance and human rights that Israel wants for itselfs?
So why do I pick on Israel when Israel is doing what every other country is doing, using foreign workers!? Well nowhere is there a responsiblity (read the ”blame” circle discussion) in that Israel is strangeling the Palestinan economy by block tax refunds, exportation of olive oil and movement of people and goods in Palestine and at the same time knowly excludes Palestinian laborers. This is a policy of apartheid and must stop! Another example of double standard? But then again Israel can never be blamed for anything because the security reasons can´t never be problematised. Israel must have the right to choose the best economic strategy for itself (foreign workers) and at the same time distroyes it´s inter tweened neigbour economic. Surly there must be someone in Israel that also believes in that building common fundamental economic possibilites creates platforms and highways for peace? What do you think? Why must Israel´s right be by dening Palestine to exist? (Looking for an answer that is not ”security reasons” if possible?).
Saul, I find it amazing that so many Israelies (actually everyone that I have meet) can´t distance themself from the "David" role and glaze at the same situation with other glasses?! This sounds like asking a colonial Belgian in Kongo during their colonial hightime about a comment on the situation and then assuming that it covered everyone in Kongo (while King Leopold raped, killed tousend and stole systematically in Kongo). No seeing is neutral as You know so why should Israelis be? You say that there were peace before the 2:nd intifada? Peace for whom? Wasn´t it during this "peacetime" that the Westbank saw the beginning of the building boom that even today shows no signs in slowing down?
………….
" Leading up to the second Intifada there were long years of political exhaustion in sterile negotiations with Israel. The standard of living plunged. The legal system proved nonexistent. Arafat carried out a reign of political terror. There was one lone attempt on the secular plane at organized public protest: the Manifesto of the Twenty, published on November 27, 1999. This criticized the PA's corruption and its collaboration with Israel. It did not receive significant public support and was quickly put down."
(intresting reading about the intifadas: http://www.challenge-mag.com/74/intifadas.html)
………..
And surly there must be another perspective on the second Intifada and why It blow off? How much obviouse can it get when a massmurderer (sabra & shatila) and rasist political leader as Sharon enters the Al Aska moskee? It must be clear that he didn´t want to have a chat with peaceful muslims about a peaceful two-state solution in a peaceful climate! Sadly I hear & read so many times the more "offical story" that since the Palestines are violent the second Intifada started out of that reason. What´s your view Saul?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre).
Regarding feminism, I just had a awful lecture in rethoric where my professsor said some really sad thing. Among others he said that "I think that women only should seperate their legs at nighttime". When I told him afterwards, that I by the end of the day proberbly would have seperated my legs around 10 times (at least) and none of them were for having sex and ask him what he had to say to that fact he just mumbled. I later mailed him to get him to explain his statement - why should women only seperate their legs at nighttime? If a professor in rethoric says that, he means it - surly he must be able to argument for it?!
So far nothing...
Now I need to take a walk around the block to get a some fresh summer air & maybe I will get a latte. Actually, one of the best latte I ever had so far were the shmolt (israeli latte) you got at every ordinary gas station or coffeplace. Cant for the world say why (the milk?) but it still occupy a high mark on my list...
later...
:m
All links:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/866768.html
http://www.fidh.org/magmoyen/rapport/2003/il1806a.pdf
http://www.fidh.org/article.php3?id_article=3257
http://www.challenge-mag.com/74/intifadas.html (recommend this one!)
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