hi saul,
some names are ugly some are nicer.t he Oxford Dictionary´s definition on colonialism fits Israel to the word.
I don´t really get it. as a lawyer you know that facts and emtions dont really mix. last of all together with ideology. by saying that the "west bank" is not another country and beyond Isreali borders you know something I don´t know and haven´t been able to find anywhere. what facts do you base that claim on? and how can it be your country? your arguments are absurd to follow. will you soon also claim that the "arabs" immigrated into "your country" looking for work? Maybe a word for Ahad haAm who knew the situation 100 years ago:
"From abroad, we are accustomed to believe that Eretz Israel is presently almost totally desolated, an uncultivated desert, an that anyone wishing to buy land there can come and buy all he wants. But in truth this is not so. In the entire land, it is hard to find a tillable land that is not already tilled; only sandy fields and stony hills, suitable at best for planting trees or wine and, even that, after considerable work and expense in clearing and preparing them”
just prior to the 1948 war, ews owned under 7% of palestine’s land, and to increase their share after the war, they passed the “absentees’ law” which dispossessed the palestinian majority land owners who later became “absent”. What is even more tragic was the passage of an oxymoron law, called “present absentees’ law,” which dispossessed the palestinian-israeli citizens who became internal refugees in Israel. it is worth noting that the internal Jewish refugees were not dispossessed as a result of this racist law.
Again clearly this is not all your country by history or by facts. but by european colonial ideology. that is zionism and zionism was as you know until 1991 labeled as a racist organtisation. but with a lable or not zionism as a system is either is inherently racist or at least fosters racism. "A racist ideology need not always manifest itself as such, and, if the circumstances are right, it need not always actually practice racism to maintain itself."
antiisgood.wordpress.com israel
there is no progress in always defining israel´s policies with "you deny our right to exist". i am actually sick and tired of that "slogan" because it polarises the discussion instead of problemaise it. colonialism is one thing. existing is another. why do Israel choose to exist through colonialism? why can´t israel stay behind it´s boarders? oh, that´s right the dream/vison of Erezt where all land is just Israeli. but that also would include some parts of saudi and a river in libanon. is that next?
yes, jews have lived in palestine for centurys but were they living alone? well Ahad haAm didn´t experienced it not to be so, on the contrary. please, could you direct me to the information about your statement about "the sovereign Jewish state here years ago". I never ever heard about that. rather all I have read about is the english and the french colonialism parting up palestine and libanon and the way the english "handed over" their piece of land to UN (at that time). when the palestine problem was created by the english in 1917, more than 92% of the population of palestine were Arabs and there were at that time no more than 56,000 Jews in Palestine.
what the Israeli palestinians are doing in their native country? guess they are surviving as they are subjected to israeli laws that are different than the laws governing the 4.5 million Israeli Jews. Israeli-Palestinian citizens live almost in segregated communities (or ghettos) because development is strictly limited outside their village. they are the natives just like the indians in US and the blacks in south africa. a feature they share with some jews, durse, bediuns.
what the swedes are doing in sweden? living, having sex and right now sunbathing. to be a swed you dont have to claim a relgion you do as in every other country except of Israel, you get nationalized by applying a citizenship at a goverment institution. and yes, swedes are also colonialists as we have pushed out the natives and almost succesfully broken their fabric.
www.haaretz.com article
please read this great artical by Bradley Burston,
"The Palestinian arguments against recognizing Israel are many, and often well-articulated. Palestinians believe that they should not be made to pay the price of the Holocaust, and they are right. Palestinians believe that they have been subjugated, mistreated, and denied self-determination, and they are right."
www.haaretz.com article
the last palestinas I meet were not talking about "removing" all jews or "throwing them into the sea" but were talking about beeing able to survive. it´s Israel that is pushing them out from their land so I find there statements very very human and basic. they too want to live with water, business, schools, roads, cafeeshops, olive plantations aso.
believe me, i am very aware of the "gap" between the pros and cons regarding the conflict. some of my family are zionist so its also close by ( they however only supports israel because they want jesus to come back and they believe that the jews are the choosen one that can not do wrong). i dont agree what you say as you have noticed. i even in some cases get sad when you write "it´s our land" and justify colonialism as your existance. but i will always respect your view, your experience and your right to express it. you can call me onesided which is another rethoric tactic used in this conflic but ignorant? of what? i however find it astouning that the pro-Israel side can have such a double moral when it comes to its suffering that is copyrighted and has not limits. it´s only Israel security, future, right to exist, right to live normal lives, right to travel freely, right to visit Ein Gedi, right to the rain water, right to the truth, right over the Other... but never can those claims be reversed upon israel. that is onesided paradox.
so I never get supprised by the resentless repeating of slogans like "arabs hate jews", "arabs are terrorist", "they have missed every oppertunity to create their state", "israel is for peace", "zionism is good", "israel is the only democratic country in the region"... as they are more pr than facts.
I have never said that jewishness is evil or bad so that has to stand for you. israel is created on the injustice of what happend in europe during the 2ww and still exists. israel has expanded by ethinical cleansing and war and exists. israel is maintaing an other people and land under occupation and still exists. what israel is in my eyes is worse than south africa. I myself have personal experinces of that which streches 14 years. I have also read books (problerbly not the same as you have) and atended seminares regarding the conflict.
”If Palestinians were black, Israel would be a pariah state subject to economic sanctions led by the United States." (London Observer, 2002 )
zionism for me is the start of it all. by having the kibbutz and laws that made it illegal to sell land to arabs. energizing terrorist organistions like the stern gang with others and then be an active part in the birth of Israel in laws and through organisations and in schoolbooks. zionism is evil as long as you are not jewish.
www.countercurrents.org pa-christison
thomas? aha anomalous. ofcourse you don´t like him and ofcourse I love him. don´t actually know him but maybe I should mail him. i just recently found him and added him to my contact list. you however got hold of me first.
what I agree with you addtionally are following:
how do you like your camera? i got a canon 5 d and I totally love it. shit expensive and awesome but a bit to big. i loved it when I had a smaller camera that I could carry along easier...
looking forward to part 2.
lala tov.
maria
some names are ugly some are nicer.t he Oxford Dictionary´s definition on colonialism fits Israel to the word.
I don´t really get it. as a lawyer you know that facts and emtions dont really mix. last of all together with ideology. by saying that the "west bank" is not another country and beyond Isreali borders you know something I don´t know and haven´t been able to find anywhere. what facts do you base that claim on? and how can it be your country? your arguments are absurd to follow. will you soon also claim that the "arabs" immigrated into "your country" looking for work? Maybe a word for Ahad haAm who knew the situation 100 years ago:
"From abroad, we are accustomed to believe that Eretz Israel is presently almost totally desolated, an uncultivated desert, an that anyone wishing to buy land there can come and buy all he wants. But in truth this is not so. In the entire land, it is hard to find a tillable land that is not already tilled; only sandy fields and stony hills, suitable at best for planting trees or wine and, even that, after considerable work and expense in clearing and preparing them”
just prior to the 1948 war, ews owned under 7% of palestine’s land, and to increase their share after the war, they passed the “absentees’ law” which dispossessed the palestinian majority land owners who later became “absent”. What is even more tragic was the passage of an oxymoron law, called “present absentees’ law,” which dispossessed the palestinian-israeli citizens who became internal refugees in Israel. it is worth noting that the internal Jewish refugees were not dispossessed as a result of this racist law.
Again clearly this is not all your country by history or by facts. but by european colonial ideology. that is zionism and zionism was as you know until 1991 labeled as a racist organtisation. but with a lable or not zionism as a system is either is inherently racist or at least fosters racism. "A racist ideology need not always manifest itself as such, and, if the circumstances are right, it need not always actually practice racism to maintain itself."
antiisgood.wordpress.com israel
there is no progress in always defining israel´s policies with "you deny our right to exist". i am actually sick and tired of that "slogan" because it polarises the discussion instead of problemaise it. colonialism is one thing. existing is another. why do Israel choose to exist through colonialism? why can´t israel stay behind it´s boarders? oh, that´s right the dream/vison of Erezt where all land is just Israeli. but that also would include some parts of saudi and a river in libanon. is that next?
yes, jews have lived in palestine for centurys but were they living alone? well Ahad haAm didn´t experienced it not to be so, on the contrary. please, could you direct me to the information about your statement about "the sovereign Jewish state here years ago". I never ever heard about that. rather all I have read about is the english and the french colonialism parting up palestine and libanon and the way the english "handed over" their piece of land to UN (at that time). when the palestine problem was created by the english in 1917, more than 92% of the population of palestine were Arabs and there were at that time no more than 56,000 Jews in Palestine.
what the Israeli palestinians are doing in their native country? guess they are surviving as they are subjected to israeli laws that are different than the laws governing the 4.5 million Israeli Jews. Israeli-Palestinian citizens live almost in segregated communities (or ghettos) because development is strictly limited outside their village. they are the natives just like the indians in US and the blacks in south africa. a feature they share with some jews, durse, bediuns.
what the swedes are doing in sweden? living, having sex and right now sunbathing. to be a swed you dont have to claim a relgion you do as in every other country except of Israel, you get nationalized by applying a citizenship at a goverment institution. and yes, swedes are also colonialists as we have pushed out the natives and almost succesfully broken their fabric.
www.haaretz.com article
please read this great artical by Bradley Burston,
"The Palestinian arguments against recognizing Israel are many, and often well-articulated. Palestinians believe that they should not be made to pay the price of the Holocaust, and they are right. Palestinians believe that they have been subjugated, mistreated, and denied self-determination, and they are right."
www.haaretz.com article
the last palestinas I meet were not talking about "removing" all jews or "throwing them into the sea" but were talking about beeing able to survive. it´s Israel that is pushing them out from their land so I find there statements very very human and basic. they too want to live with water, business, schools, roads, cafeeshops, olive plantations aso.
- israels withdrawel from sinan penisula also gave Israel what it needed more, peace with the stronges neigbour and a border.
- the west bank is a mess. withdrawing from parts of it has nothing to do with peace rather demography. got some really horrid quatos from Isreali academics on that if you want.
- all lebanese territory? how about the shaba farms? what were Israel doing there at all?
- the peace treaty with jordan again turned out to be a greater benefit for Israel. You got your second border and peace. futher more israel secured some of it´s water need.
believe me, i am very aware of the "gap" between the pros and cons regarding the conflict. some of my family are zionist so its also close by ( they however only supports israel because they want jesus to come back and they believe that the jews are the choosen one that can not do wrong). i dont agree what you say as you have noticed. i even in some cases get sad when you write "it´s our land" and justify colonialism as your existance. but i will always respect your view, your experience and your right to express it. you can call me onesided which is another rethoric tactic used in this conflic but ignorant? of what? i however find it astouning that the pro-Israel side can have such a double moral when it comes to its suffering that is copyrighted and has not limits. it´s only Israel security, future, right to exist, right to live normal lives, right to travel freely, right to visit Ein Gedi, right to the rain water, right to the truth, right over the Other... but never can those claims be reversed upon israel. that is onesided paradox.
so I never get supprised by the resentless repeating of slogans like "arabs hate jews", "arabs are terrorist", "they have missed every oppertunity to create their state", "israel is for peace", "zionism is good", "israel is the only democratic country in the region"... as they are more pr than facts.
I have never said that jewishness is evil or bad so that has to stand for you. israel is created on the injustice of what happend in europe during the 2ww and still exists. israel has expanded by ethinical cleansing and war and exists. israel is maintaing an other people and land under occupation and still exists. what israel is in my eyes is worse than south africa. I myself have personal experinces of that which streches 14 years. I have also read books (problerbly not the same as you have) and atended seminares regarding the conflict.
”If Palestinians were black, Israel would be a pariah state subject to economic sanctions led by the United States." (London Observer, 2002 )
zionism for me is the start of it all. by having the kibbutz and laws that made it illegal to sell land to arabs. energizing terrorist organistions like the stern gang with others and then be an active part in the birth of Israel in laws and through organisations and in schoolbooks. zionism is evil as long as you are not jewish.
www.countercurrents.org pa-christison
thomas? aha anomalous. ofcourse you don´t like him and ofcourse I love him. don´t actually know him but maybe I should mail him. i just recently found him and added him to my contact list. you however got hold of me first.
what I agree with you addtionally are following:
- that israel should exist
- that not all israelis are racist or hate arabs or want to kill them all
- that the situation is very complex
- that peace and security is vital
how do you like your camera? i got a canon 5 d and I totally love it. shit expensive and awesome but a bit to big. i loved it when I had a smaller camera that I could carry along easier...
looking forward to part 2.
lala tov.
maria
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